Following on from my previous post about Lost Dog's genius The Last Hamlet at Sadler's Wells East, here's a summary of the post-show discussion for those who couldn't make it. I only caught it by chance myself, and have done my best to capture the gist, working against the clock at the mo.
After the performance on 5 November, Rob Jones, Associate Artistic Director of Sadler's Wells, hosted a Q&A with Ben Duke, Hannah Shepherd, Miguel Altunaga and musician Anna B Savage, with BSL interpretation by Erin Hutching.
Spoiler alert: There are some substantial spoilers ahead, including discussion of the ending. I'd recommend seeing the show first if you can.
Rob began with a few questions of his own to get the ball rolling, including the obvious one: Why Hamlet?
Ben explained that a couple of years ago he'd started seeing Hamlet everywhere. He was also having something of a midlife moment, wondering about his place on stage. He quoted Withnail and I: "There comes a time in every man's life when he realises he will never play the Dane." He felt he'd passed that milestone himself. But then again, if he created his own production, why shouldn't he play Hamlet?! "I sound like a total egomaniac," he joked. But of course he didn't. Ben Duke may have hit the genetic jackpot in the talent stakes, but he works at it too. Still, he said there was a mixture of ego, midlife reflection and curiosity about why this particular character seemed to be everywhere. Isn't that the frequency illusion at work, I wondered. A bit like seeing circus everywhere, right?!
As for how the production evolved, Ben described a rather chaotic process of going back to Shakespeare's text, realising how little he actually knew it (he got a first in English Lit, so his "not knowing" is clearly relative) and gathering brilliant people around him to experiment. That reminded me of Lydia Harper saying something similar (Chapter 268). It's a strange play, he reflected, about inaction, in which not much happens, yet it's become one of the most famous works in literature.
They began writing, reading and messing around with ideas. Some elements from an early week of development, about a year ago, survived into the finished production, including Anna's song towards the end. Ben subsequently rang her to ask whether she'd come and perform it live.
Miguel confirmed the chaos. Working with Ben was constantly playful, and they were still discovering things in the production, exploring how much power, effort or delicacy each scene needed. Sometimes scenes worked brilliantly in isolation but not in the context of the whole show, so they had to be sacrificed. Only to reappear later.
For instance, Ben revealed that Miguel's singing in the final scene had only been reinstated the previous night, for performance number twenty. Anyone who'd seen the show earlier wouldn't have seen it.Miguel described days when nothing seemed to happen, everyone experimenting in different corners of the rehearsal room, trying out movements or texts. The important thing was to remain open to those moments too.
And then Ben passed the mic to Anna: "Well I feel like I've won a competition to be here." She described being inspired by this extraordinary new world, joking that music was held together with "Pritt Stick and hope". I loved that! Everything happening around her seemed so impressive. "I feel so lucky to be so up close to so many incredibly talented people. It's just magical."
That struck a chord. It's one of the reasons I write this blog. I see inspiring performances, meet extraordinary people, and somehow some of that energy passes through. It lifts me up. And perhaps by writing about it, I can pass a little of that energy on.
Rob then asked Ben something I was particularly interested in, given the way he combines literary, theatrical and choreographic talents. How did he know when to introduce the dance, working with Shakespeare's text as well as his own writing?
Ben replied that it was an endlessly fascinating and problematic question, one that lies at the heart of his creative process. He starts with stories and words. In the past, he'd wait until the narrative was clear before creating the choreography, but the problem was that this tended to happen about a day before they were due on stage, and dance takes longer to make. Now they begin creating movement earlier, even if they're not yet sure where it belongs. One duet, for example, had initially been developed with quite a different atmosphere before finding its place in the show.
I really liked how he talked about the instinct to move from words into something more emotional and physical, of "falling into movement". And then the question he asks himself: "When is the moment to stop talking and start moving?" That made me smile. One of the themes of the play is how to get Hamlet to just stop talking...
Then came the audience questions.
The first concerned the ending. Had they always intended for Hamlet to end up in a box?
Not exactly. Ben had been interested in shifting the revenge narrative towards Ophelia, so that she became the one facing the decision of whether to kill Hamlet. But then, if she did, would that make her as bad as him? They tried various possibilities. The idea of boxes came quite early, including a sort of magic trick in which Hamlet would disappear among them as they were shuffled around, until nobody knew where he was. Just another soft toy in a box. I imagined they would need a trapdoor underneath, Columbo-style (I'd just watched the episode with Billy Connolly as a magician at my sister's, for auld lang syne!). I digress. Sorry. At one stage Hamlet continued talking from inside the box, but that didn't feel right.
"Shut up, just shut up! Enough." And so the idea of silencing him took shape.
Another audience member asked about the extraordinary set design. This was my question, I thought, having just had my set-designing niece staying over, whose work has been an eye-opener for me over the years. Only this audience member took it one step further, observing how the boxes work as a literal representation of the compartmentalisation of Hamlet's mind. I was relieved I hadn't put up my hand.
Ben immediately credited the brilliant Soutra Gilmour, the set designer. They'd initially talked about walls. The fourth wall, the Berlin Wall, all the important walls they could think of. I wondered also if the wall on the Mexican-US border came to mind at one point (see show!). I also thought of Dad again. How he'd brought me back a piece of the Berlin Wall when it collapsed. Where did it go? And then Soutra suggested boxes. Suddenly the ideas came flooding in. Hamlet's compartmentalised mind, his emotional baggage, the weight of history he carries around with him.
They considered making the structures more solid, but cardboard boxes worked so well in rehearsal that they stayed. And it turns out Ben had been moving house that summer, with his own life packed into boxes. I don't want to say more here for fear of further spoilers, but the play and innovation with those boxes is again, well, just genius. And I loved that once again Ben emphasised the importance of collaborators who take an idea and offer something that pushes it further.
Next came a question about theatre director Katie Mitchell, whose BBC interview arguing that we should stop staging Hamlet is such an integral part of the production. Had she been invited to see it?
Yes, they'd written to her, although Ben admitted to being rather nervous about what she might think.
Soutra had sent him the interview, and he'd been struck by the sheer directness of Mitchell's argument. She dispenses with Hamlet in one fell swoop and is utterly unapologetic about it. It was like doing away with the Mona Lisa of literature and putting something else in its place. So radical, something heroic about that. And it gave Ben a way into the work. If he was Hamlet, and this was a personal attack, how would he respond? "I'm not sure whether we rebutted it successfully." I beg to differ.
Then came the tongue-in-cheek one:
"How hard was it to acknowledge where Shakespeare got the idea from and bring in The Lion King into this?" Ben laughed about ordering a "very flammable Simba costume" from Amazon early in the process. The connection had seemed ridiculous, but then The Lion King, like Hamlet, is everywhere. Even if people don't know Shakespeare's play, they probably know the Disney version. And the costume also seemed to capture something of Hamlet's arrested development and childishness. So they decided to riff on the idea and see how far it could go.
Another audience member said that seeing Lost Dog's Ruination a couple of years ago had changed their life. God, I haven't heard of that one, I thought with a pang. They'd noticed how Ben's work explored human beings as complicated, morally ambiguous creatures, rather than simply heroes and villains.
Ben agreed this was a recurring preoccupation. In Ruination, for example, Hannah had played Medea, traditionally seen as a monstrous figure, but who decides whether someone is good or bad? Shakespeare, he argued, is extraordinary at portraying complexity, where "darkness and humour sit together". Well, you nailed that here, I thought.
He even questioned whether we are unified individuals at all.
"We are just all multiple. We are so many people." Someone might be a hero one moment and an "absolute arsehole" the next. It makes it very difficult to condemn or glorify people, and that complexity fascinates him. I also love the lack of judgement implicit in that. It speaks volumes instead about an artist's curiosity and openness.
With the clock ticking, and Rob doing a great job of timekeeping, the penultimate question concerned BSL interpretation and how it had been incorporated into the movement and technical work. This was again something I would have asked. Ben's answer was refreshingly candid. Late. Very late.
They've worked with Clare many times, and he gave a great shout-out to her extraordinary preparation and commitment. Yet the actual integration of her signing into the stage action had come together in a rush that very afternoon. I couldn't believe the time frame.
It had been abundantly clear in the show that there had been discussions about how to bring her into the space, rather than leave her stranded in a corner, and make her part of the action. But his goal was for this to go further, if only time and money allowed.
Finally, an audience member asked about the audience participation. This was the point when I thought, clowning, hey presto! They admitted to having initially thought, "Oh here we go!" when it was announced, but had found it worked beautifully. Ben explained that the idea had come early, although he'd temporarily lost his nerve before returning to it. Part of the thinking was about Hamlet's extraordinary relationship with the audience. He keeps talking to us, creating an unusual intimacy, a conversation across the fourth wall. Ben wanted to explore how to recreate that. And then there was the practical question of giving all those soft toys voices. Why not get the audience to do it? "You pay for a ticket and then you have to do the acting." What can I say? In a world of budget cuts and tortuous Arts Council applications... Genius! Encore ;)
Right, now to pack for Prague and Cirk La Putyka. I can't believe it's already 3pm. In twelve hours I'll be getting up to head to the airport. The circus is calling. Come follow the band.









